redrocketer
Member:
Posts: 2

I find that jj seems to be one of the hands that i am constantly at war with.
if i raise with it and get called, i generally am being called by 2 over cards or a bigger pocket pair.

the trouble i have is, if i raise and the highest flop card is a 10 i still dont know where im at bacause so often the other player has a bigger pair..
any ideas?

i just see jj as a real trouble hand and am not really sure how to play it

DudleyDawson
Member:
Posts: 45

JJ can definitely be a tricky hand to play. Here's what I pulled out of my PT database:

I've had JJ 657 times out of 151,623 hands with a 74.43 win%
I've cold called a PFR 40/76 times
I've open-raised 317/345 times
I've 3 bet 83/176 times
I've limped behind previous callers 23/117 times

I usually approach it differently at various stages of the SNG and also against certain opponents. Early on in the game from 15/30-30/60 I'll be selectively aggressive with them. As you can see from the above numbers, I'll almost always raise when I'm first in. But at these early stages, you just can't get some of the looser opponents to fold KQo UTG no matter how much you raise. 3 betting PF can be dangerous, because NO ONE folds AK.

As far as knowing where you are on a ten high flop, there aren't too many players that just smooth call preflop QQ+. In a heads up pot versus a loose unknown opponent, I'll probably play for stacks on a ten high flop, but with 3 or more opponents seeing the same flop I'd be a bit more hesitant.

redrocketer
Member:
Posts: 2

thanks for your feed back, very helpful

Alpine021
Member:
Posts: 39

Nice first reply. I too hate JJ. Lose with them and against them.

But I know some poker players that start playing hands differently based on their experiences as opposed to hand strength. This is a massive error. And I know the following example is extreme but still....

I was sat behind my friend playing a SNG who always seems get sucked out with AA. He raised 3xBB early position blinds 50 / 100 and got 1 caller from the button. So with a pot of 750 they saw a flop off 3 3 Q. Out of position my friend bets pot.

I'm asking what the hell he's playing at and he says he'd rather take down the 750 then get sucked out. Unbelievable. He's only getting called by the obvious 3 (unlikely due to pre flop action) and maybe a few other hands but even 44 - 1010 probably won't call purely due to the bet size.

So back to JJ still play them as a strong hand. Sometimes I will re-raise pre flop as if overcards come down u can represent more easily as you've shown such strength preflop.

As for a 10 high board I've recently had to start firing flop and turn. Betting the flop and check folding the turn is weak. Flop bet and a turn check raise could either massively inflate the pot which is horrible if ur behind or could give them a free card to hit that over card if they check behind.

As for being against an over pair then a lot of money is probably going in the pot anyway. Especially on a dry rainbow board.

I just try and be confident with them even though they don't do well for me. And you have to remember even on a 2 9 Q board it doesn't mean they have the queen and might fold 1010 to a decent bet...

BudO
Member:
Posts: 7

Unless specific conditions warrant otherwise I tend to play according to the observation of Doyle Brunson: "There are 3 ways to play JJ.... and they're all wrong" Smile

Posts: 1269

I think all you need to know about playing JJ is covered in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kP9CBtSW0kA&feature=player_embedded

DudleyDawson
Member:
Posts: 45

LOL...that video is hilarious! Not very informative, but definitely very funny. My 74.43% win rate looks pretty good after watching that. Smile Big

Beachy Poker
Member:
Posts: 36

Ah, great video, definitely a different type from his usual. I don't like to slow play JJ ever. I want to raise or reraise preflop. Your just asking for trouble if you let people in for cheap. You're likely to lose to A6 or 25o. I would say, realize its strength but be very willing to drop it as well. Good luck!

Alpine021
Member:
Posts: 39

That's the funniest poker video i've ever seen. "wrong f£$%ing Jack" genius!

pharreal87
Member:
Posts: 1265

that video of pocket jacks is pretty old now but it is still hilarious no matter how many times you see it.

CYCLOPEAN_0
Member:
Posts: 30

Well at least he won one of them..

elektrosushi
Member:
Posts: 28

Beachy Poker wrote:
I don't like to slow play JJ ever. I want to raise or reraise preflop. Your just asking for trouble if you let people in for cheap. You're likely to lose to A6 or 25o. I would say, realize its strength but be very willing to drop it as well. Good luck!

Point well taken. And that's all there is to it. Just don't let people see the flop cheap, raise/reraise almost always preflop, but throw it away if you must.

It's still better to drive out everyone preflop than being in a multiway pot with a possibly scary flop later on. If your strong raise is being called preflop, it will be one guy only most of the time, and then you at least know what you're dealing with. You will still win most of the time, btw.

It is a very strong Hand.

I love to raise it hard after opponents limping preflop, or behind aggresive players who semi-bluff raise too obviously preflop. For example, early and mid-stage in a STT they would only bet 2 or 3 BB with a truly strong hand, but when they go like 6 BB, I make a very strong reraise and have them in deep trouble most of the time. This is especially beautiful sitting right next to the guy, on his left of course. Makes it look even stronger, makes him really unsure of what to do next and thus provokes bad play post flop if he decides to stay in the game with his K8 or whatever average hand he might be holding. Just remember it is still a game of poker, he might of course be holding a monster hand as well, so you must of course consider throwing away to a push by the villain. It depends on the stage of the game, the stacks, the table images, and so on. As always. But - as a general advice: It is a strong hand, play it like a strong hand. Don't make things too complicated. Keep it simple. Simple poker is good poker, most of the time.

Posts: 1

any two cards have some probability to win the pot. Preflop, its the fourth strongest starting hand, tied for 4th if you say AKsuited is about the same. So your going to play it. If you run into AA-QQ preflop, you just got unlucky. You occasionally get away from them, like when there's a raise, followed by an allin infront of you, but I'd never fold them to one raise infront of me. If I go broke, I go broke. I'm going to have to take a risk at some point to win a sitngo, so I'd rather risk it with the 4th best starting hand then to blind down an finally have to push with A7s or something. MTT deepstack is a different story. Not looking to go broke early with JJ. Sitngo is almost always turbo, so you need to win a flip at some point usually within the first couple levels.

Trust the math, and don't whine when your JJ gets cracked. Now if I slow play it preflop, I'm basically saying I'm playing them for set value. I'll do that early sometimes in MT live event, but not a sitngo and never online. Just too likely to get action from hands that i'm ahead 70-30%. When I say slow play, I'm including flat calling, waiting to see the flop in position, then hoping to pick up the continuation bet when I'm still ahead, or folding to the continuation bet when I see two over cards. Not usually folding to a Q or K by itself unless calling pot commits me. Then it's push or fold, not call. From the blinds, if I flat call it would be from the standpoint of looking at the flop to see if it looks like I won the race, or ahead in the race, and planning a checkraise. I'm not flat calling a late position raise. Once the blinds get higher, I'm definately looking to get it allin preflop, since 90% of the time, I'm going to be ahead in a race. Calling preflop is slow playing.

The more I think about it though Doyle is right, there is no good way to play them.

Metaworld
Member:
Posts: 7

To understand this discussion, Everyone needs to see the video referenced above. I was laughing so hard I was crying. Not only does it make a point about playing JJ, it's great laugh therapy.

SoderKrippa
Member:
Posts: 2

Without going into it much deeper, I just want to add that starting stack size stipulates how to play JJ at different levels in 1 table SNGs, in my opinion. At Full Tilt, you start with only 50bb and 3betting JJ in early stages takes a too large chunk of your stack if your plan is to play them very conservatively post flop. Pot controlling is crucial in early stages, because its very important to have a stack that gives you a big stack when you double it up later on.

If you play at another network, and start with 100bb, then I could 3bet JJ preflop in early stages to contain initiative in the hand, especially in position.

At mid stages, its a more difficult hand to play I think. I would say your stack size is an important aspect of how to play them. If you have a comfortable stack, lets say sitting with 2'500 with 50/100 blinds and being top 3 in the chip count with like 6 players left, I dont mind just fold it to a raise preflop even in spots where I think Im ahead most of the times. If I'm instead have a stack that I really need to double up with soon, lets say around 1300 in the same scenario, I gladly shove it.

In later stages, it kind of plays it self. Dont feel any need of going into that deeper.

Just my two cents.