does anybody ever think there is a time when you should fold Aces preflop in a regular 9 person sng? where top three get paid and the payout is the normal payout where first is more than 2nd and 2nd more than third.
player 1 4383
player 2 4383
player 3 4384
you 350 chips
those are the chip stacks, you are in BB with 100/200 blinds. you have Aces.
all three players before you go allin.......
what's your play now?
just thought i'd post this to show players that just because you have the best hand preflop doesn't mean you need to play it. the correct play in this situation is to fold btw.
pretty much never should be the answer to this question though unless a crazy situation shows up like this. and for those of you who play double or nothings or are going to start sometime it just shows that it can and is profitable to fold aces preflop, sometimes.
just something interesting to post
I've made this mistake many times in SNGs on the bubble. You only have one goal if you are short stacked and on the bubble, MAKE THE MONEY! You're example above is great but allow me to provide a different example:
Let's say you are in the BB and there is an all in and a call in front of you and you will have only enough for the small blind if you fold. Doubling up doesn't give you any more chance to get back in the game so calling off your last small blind has little or no value. But if you fold, even if the all in person with the big stack has 72 and the other all in has AA you are going to make the money more than 10% of the time. But that is rarely the case and you will likely make the money 1/3 of the time in that situation. As you can see, folding AA here would be much more of a +EV move than calling...as you gain no specific advantage by calling, but a great possibility of making the money if you fold.
First hand of a SNG, you are in the bb with AA, and EVERYONE goes all in. Insta fold AA.
player 2 4383
player 3 4384
you 350 chips
those are the chip stacks, you are in BB with 100/200 blinds. you have Aces.
all three players before you go allin.......
what's your play now?
With due respect, I entirely DISAGREE with folding AA here. Almost certainly your opponents have Ak, AK & KK. Which means you are a HUGE favorite to win, quadruple your stack and be back in the hunt (somewhat, because $1400 is still way behind) with likely one player knocked out. If you don't call here and one player gets knocked out the stacks are aprox $8750 - $4383 - $350 and I cannot see how that puts you in a better position to win. Even worse if two players get knocked out and you're sitting at $350 looking at $13250.
[edit]: I do suppose however that if you have resigned to not winning (1st) and you are trying to just get to 3rd place, then folding would make sense here. In that case I can see your point. But, I suspect your expectation of folding = 3rd place VS your expectation of playing = 2nd/3rd. So I would still play the AA even so. Cheers.
It´s not about ur chances to win, it´s about equity:
right now, ur equity chipwise is about 3% of the pricepool.
if u fold ur almost certainly second with 3% of the chips which equals a little more than 30% of the pricepool
if u call and win ur almost certainly second with ~10% of the chips which equals say 33% of the pricepool, if u call and lose ur equity is zero
-> calling might win u 3% but lose 30% of the pricepool, the aces need to win ~90% of the hands to make calling long term profitable.
"Almost certainly your opponents have Ak, AK & KK."
The chance for this to be true is very small.
if ur only goal is winning as many tourneys as possible, never fold AA. but be aware there are cases in which it costs u money.
gl at the tables
player 2 4383
player 3 4384
you 350 chips
those are the chip stacks, you are in BB with 100/200 blinds. you have Aces.
all three players before you go allin.......
what's your play now?
With due respect, I entirely DISAGREE with folding AA here. Almost certainly your opponents have Ak, AK & KK. Which means you are a HUGE favorite to win, quadruple your stack and be back in the hunt (somewhat, because $1400 is still way behind) with likely one player knocked out. If you don't call here and one player gets knocked out the stacks are aprox $8750 - $4383 - $350 and I cannot see how that puts you in a better position to win. Even worse if two players get knocked out and you're sitting at $350 looking at $13250.
[edit]: I do suppose however that if you have resigned to not winning (1st) and you are trying to just get to 3rd place, then folding would make sense here. In that case I can see your point. But, I suspect your expectation of folding = 3rd place VS your expectation of playing = 2nd/3rd. So I would still play the AA even so. Cheers.
my goal every time i win is to make the smartest plays possible and win the most money in the long run. going for first every single time in every single situation is not the smartest way to win the most money in the long run every time.
folding here is the smart play.
the chances they have AK AK KK is some ridiculous number to 1. it would be something like AK, 99, and QQ or something which would be bad news for us with AA in the long run trying to make the most money overall.
can you please stop posting the same thing everywhere on this site. thanks.
u know that's not a human posting that right pharreal???...
what do you think now quack quack?
so it's a guy who doesnt now how to get a computer to post his spam for him. i'm so embarrassed... either way telling him to stop is a waste of time.
In that AA situation, you guys have to understand that even doubling or tripling up in this tournament isn't going to really change our equity position, we're still going to be in fourth place and not gauranteed to enter the money. There are certainly times we need to fold aces, but they are few and far between, you might encounter a spot like that once in a thousand games. In flatter payout structures like DON's, it's a situation that occurs more often on the bubble.
probably more than 1 in 1k games, definitely occurs more in DON's
can a mod please delete this ukugg person, spamming the shit out of every post.
Two different scenarios here: 1 has 3 people shoving and the other has only 2 players shoving. When 3 shove on you, well just throw it away.
When 2 shove it's completely different ... somebody please put it in PokerStove or one similar app. End of discussion
bottom line we play sngs' to cash and mtts to win!!!!!!!! so 3 allins you fold....but ive done it and regreted it (Std 3way split k hi straight on the board (with 2pairs and sets .....so gutting)..I'll try find the hand on my pt and post it! but seriously the right thing to do......If it is a DON or a SAT, then i tend to go with the cards...to my detrement!...Its amazing how many times this spot comes up! and on full tilt (as a euro player I've Withdrawn my roll).........
3 way shove ahead of you - fold cause in the 3 way example, one wins the pot, 2 are eliminated. You are insta second place. (of couse unless there is a chop.) I'll take that. - But overall I would look hard at stacks before I decide. Chances are hands are like AK, QQ, and TT. Someone always seems to hit a set in this spot.
as long as one person wins outright you are in the money, or if stacks are super low at least its like one guy with 97% of chips and the rest of players fight it out with tiny stacks.
imho
never fold aces preflop in sng single table