Interesting Spot
This is an interesting hand that occured at a table tonight. Was 4 handed and Envision9 is a regular at these tables:
***** Hand History for Game 50710077710 ***** (Poker Stars)
Tourney Hand NL Texas Hold'em - Wednesday, October 06, 06:31:27 ET 2010
Table 318443592 1 (Real Money)
Seat 9 is the button
Seat 1: rx5er4 ( $745.00 USD )
Seat 2: bobha46 ( $1705.00 USD )
Seat 4: L_Usher87 ( $5025.00 USD )
Seat 9: Envision9 ( $6025.00 USD )
rx5er4 posts ante of [$25.00 USD].
bobha46 posts ante of [$25.00 USD].
L_Usher87 posts ante of [$25.00 USD].
Envision9 posts ante of [$25.00 USD].
rx5er4 posts small blind [$200.00 USD].
bobha46 posts big blind [$400.00 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to L_Usher87 [ Ad Kd ]
L_Usher87 raises [$920.00 USD]
Envision9 raises [$6000.00 USD]
rx5er4 folds
bobha46 folds
L_Usher87 calls [$4080.00 USD]
Envision9 wins $1000.00 USD
** Dealing Flop ** [ 7h, 4d, 9c ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Kh ]
** Dealing River ** [ 3d ]
L_Usher87 shows [Ad, Kd ]
Envision9 shows [Qh, 9d ]
L_Usher87 wins $10700.00 USD from main pot
I've asked a few people here whether they would have called or folded AK suited in my spot. My justification for the call is that Envision9 is easily capable of shipping with nothing to isolate him and the short stack. Also my style of play is I play for the win not for the cash. I think if I had a hand like 99 or 1010 i would have folded, but for me in this spot at WORST I'm flipping and the winner of this pot basically has won the tourney.
Do you guys think AK is a justified call or should have folded?
Comments
I feel like if you're playing for the win, then this is one of those hands that you get in and then take the tourney down when you win the flip.
Like you said, the villain has a wide range and you're at worst flipping against a pair.
Almost always folding 99-1010 bc most of the time its a flip at best. Is that what you're thinking with 99-1010 also ?
Did you win ?!?
You may have done this to yourself with the size of your opening raise. I dont think I am giving anything away when I tell you that I hardly ever use these smaller than 3x opening raises. It looks like you are weak and trying to save chips if you get re-raised. If you opened small because you feel like you are sort of setting up a trap AK suited is actually too weak of a hand to do this with. If you are raising small like this because you are in fact trying to trap Envision then I think you need to call, if in fact this was your plan when your made your raise. You need to be a step ahead of your opponents but also a step ahead of yourself and have all your actions pre-planned, especially on the bubble.
Also, table select better. It is hard to know all the players but everybody knows Envision is a killer at these stakes.
Envi does this alot. I'd prob fold there anyway even when he has a hand like Q9s. i'd have done his move with any2 to you or any other reg in this situation, only cause of icm. I'd fold there anything except KK or AA. Good to know ? So you should prob shove me in bubble alot lol ^^
Yeah I got annoyed at the time for him having a go at me, but I gotta respect him as he is one of the best out there. Would be interesting to see what envision9 thinks about this hand. Yogadude do you table select? I usually open up 25 of my own lobbies, but sometimes will get joined by regs such as Envision9 yesterday.
hey Ush...yes, I table select..I usually open up 16 of my own tables, as they fill up I pull out of games with 2 regs or more...I play 20 game sets so sometimes my last 4 games I cant table-select as well and I do sometimes end up in bad games...I actually dont avoid to many specific players but Envision is worth avoiding...
gl today
If everyone is equally stacked you'll need a 65.22% favour if you want to have +EV. So if you expect your opponent go all in with TOP 40% hand, then AK is probably a correct call. But this case is different since the chipstack of luke is so big. Im not sure.
No do not call. Sometimes it's appropriate to play for SECOND as we're in position for SECOND not third. We can still go on to win the SNG even if we fold this hand, however we can't even cash if we lose that when we're guaranteed to cash... better line is to just shove or raise smaller pre.
cardinal, even if we know that he has Q9 everytime here we are saying that it isn't the easiest call here. we win like 65 35 with a great chance to win, or the 35% busting without cashing. folding almost guarantees a cash with a chance of still winning. thats why the math is close here.
I guess I am more of an instinct player because numbers do not run through my head at all when trying to make decisions...I just guess the range against my hand and do what I think will work..there was a time when I was heavy into the math of it but I think all of those numbers are somehow built into my consciousness now...I am my own SnGWiz I guess
Basically ICM translates your chip stacks into actual money stacks to work out these calculations. Imagine 9 players all starting with 1500 chips. If each 1 chip is worth 9 [no of players]/prizepool/1500 chips, each chip is worth 1 cent.
So everytime you go all in vs another player, the winners gets more chip equity (money per chips). His chips are worth more coz he has a bigger stack, BUT because a player is knocked out, each chip is worth more because there are less players to divide the prizepool with. Everyone's chip value has gone up because 1 guy got knocked out.
So in the bubble, the math is really sensitive because you are so close to the money, and by this time each chip is worth a lot more. Note that whoever gets knocked out, the equity (the value of each chip) is distributed to those who aren't in the hand, for free, for NO RISK.
So in this instance, by L_Usher calling the reshove, he gives away the equity to the short stack for free. In short, if you run this 1000 times, the risk he's taking by giving away the equity means that its gonna lose money in the long run.
Its an inexploitable play... if someone reshoved showing their rags I'd still fold.
Anyways, why take the risk when future spots you will easily pown the other players, you've got an edge in these games so you should minimize your gambling.
nothing is worse than a not-converted hand. Please convert nest time 
here is your hand
No-Limit Hold'em Tournament, 200/400 Blinds (4 handed) - Hold'em Manager Hand Converter from HandHistoryConverter.com
SB (t745)
BB (t1705)
Hero (UTG) (t5025)
Button (t6025)
Hero's M: 8.38
Preflop: Hero is UTG with A
, K
Hero bets t920, Button raises t6000, 2 folds, Hero calls t4080
Flop: (t10600) 7
, 4, 9
(2 players)
Turn: (t10600) K (2 players)
River: (t10600) 3 (2 players)
Total pot: t10600
u should have shoved the hand. Why did u raise when u decided to call the Chipleaders push? AKs is not good enough to trap the chipleader.
I think, u have to fold in that spot, because the other 2 players are that short. But my favorite line is push allin from utg.
i'm assuming that this is a 9 person?
i'm not good at math in these spots.
i think its probably pretty close either way though.
i'm sure somebody here can do the math for you though